by Julian Brown » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:39 pm
Steve added a response on the fell section, copied below
'Dear All,
I have recently spoken briefly to Craig about putting forward the following proposal for a change to the Club’s series races of next year and future years and I thought it would be appropriate to place this idea on this thread;
I felt this change may help to promote Harriers’ participation in races and also help to bring some of the unofficial different factions of the club even further together.
It would basically mean a ‘Main’ club series where there would be an amalgamation of shorter fell races, trail, road and cross country races. Additionally, a few of the longer fell races - one example being the Club’s own Fell Handicap - could be included as could some of the fairly ultra-long races such as the Bullock Smithy, Grindleford Gallop, Four Inns and the Tour of Bradwell.
I envisage that this could be as many as 30 or 40 races through the year and perhaps to qualify to finish in the final placings of the series each runner may only have to complete say 10, 12, 15 or 20 races. The number of races, which races and the number of races to qualify etc, etc would have to be decided by a small committee/get-together.
The club could benefit with a stronger presence at local fell races, Cheshire Grand Prix road races and Manchester League Cross Country races. However, with a relatively few number of races to qualify for a final placing, a runner, for instance, who normally restricts him or herself to fell, would not be forced to do many, or any at all, road races. There would be no rule to enforce that a runner completes a certain amount of each category of race except for a stipulation that a member should do so many (to be decided) trail or short fell races, this to be explained later on. No ‘specialist’ runner would be put at a disadvantage such would be the scope of the races on offer relative to the amount a runner would have to do to qualify.
If desired and by default anyway, there could still remain series’ within the Main series, for instance, the Club Road Race Championship, the Wednesday night fell series and the Cross Country series.
The fell section could – and would want to – still retain a separate Club Fell Championship which would then (but also still include the shorter fell races if it be so wished) take in the longer fell races, for example, the Edale Skyline event, the main Kinder races, the main races in the Lakes and elsewhere and Mountain Marathon type races – or those races that are designated as part of the National Fell series in any particular year.
With regard to the Fell and ‘Main’ series’ running ‘side by side’, it would be inevitable that some dates would clash (even within the Main series itself) but this shouldn’t matter too much because, in the Main series, there would be lots of races to choose from.
An unlikely consequence of this - because there may be relatively few races needed to qualify for a series placing (and/or runners’ best races within the series) - may mean that more than one runner could, theoretically, gain maximum points in the Main series. Some kind of countback (maybe the most participation in races) could built in, in order to decide winners (open, vet, mens, ladies etc)’.
This situation would probably not occur though because there would bound to be a certain amount of overlaps where close rivals would compete in the same races and the faster runner would prevail. In fact, if the rule I mentioned earlier was introduced, that a certain number of trail or short fell races have to be completed, then that should help to avoid that scenario.
If there were date clashes within the Main series itself, consideration may have to be given so as not to compromise team focus on the Cheshire Road Race Grand Prix, Manchester XC League and the National Fell Championship. A lot of the road and XC races, if not all, would be included in the new series (I think it would be easy to automatically include all the Cheshire GP races and the Manchester XC League races) though this would not necessarily mean any compromises are avoided if there is another main series race on the same day or near that day. By and large though, as it stands, the races and their respective dates, especially in the winter period, are all neatly arranged around each other.
The introduction of a Main series would then mean that trail races are ‘recognised’ for they are not really included in any one category of the club at the moment. I refer to races such as the Goyt Valley 10K, the Wizard 5 and the Staffordshire Moorlands Summer Trail series as well as the races previously mentioned, like the Bullock Smithy. I feel that some of these trail races, along with the shorter fell races, would definitely appeal to fell and road runners alike.
Examples of shorter fell races, that could possibly be included in the Main series, would be events such as the Wincle Trout, Cloud Nine, Mow Cop, Rainow 5, Boars Head, Goyt’s Moss, Bollington Nostalgia, Shining Tor, etc. Some of our own Club’s shorter races, where not many volunteers are required as officials, could also be included, such as the Langley Fete Fell race and possibly the Forest 5, Bollington 3 Peaks, Tegg’s Nose and Langley 7.
It is these trail races and the shorter fell races where there is potential for competition overlap between predominantly fell runners and predominately road runners and/or XC runners. I therefore see these races as the key ingredient for making the series work very successfully and allowing good integration between all unofficial sections of the club within a championship format.
I’m just speculating here, but for the Main series, the Club may now see fit that prizes could be budgeted for. The only section of the club that may be then, therefore, be neglected by such favour would be the track section but possibly, they could be catered for in a similar way. Or, a track event, such as the annual Club Track (&Field) Championship could even be included in the series?
For the new series, a special mememto, mug, T-shirt, or something more substantial, could be presented to every participant who completes a required number of races.
Additionally, the same 'goodies' could be made available for those who volunteer to help at various events that the Club stages, including, for example, the coaches at the track or marshalls at any given event.
It is the case at the moment that a lot of the so-called ‘C’ group runners don’t race much at the moment. As a way of encouraging more race participation from that group then a separate ‘C’ Group championship could be introduced. Having spoken to ‘C’ group leader Dave Jackson, he thinks there would be interest in such a competition and he would certainly help to promote it (it would have to be decided how such a runner would be classified).
It could be that the series’ winners’ (open, vet, men, ladies, ‘C’ group etc) be termed as ‘Overall Club Champion’ with appropriate trophy to match.
Running of the series would mean more volunteers. For example, Chris Harbron currently updates the club’s road race championship table and I don’t think he could be expected to administrate the whole series table on his own and possibly one person wouldn’t be expected to promote and report on each race.
If there were prizes available someone could be needed to administrate the design, sourcing and distribution of prizes.
There would be a fair amount of detail to discuss and probably alter (and things that I’ve not thought of) prior to setting up such a series.
This is just an idea and I’m sure others will have different ideas or members may think that the present arrangement should stay the same.
Most importantly, I wouldn’t want to see the situation where members think they’re being pressurised into racing and so if the majority of people think this idea is too ‘progressive’ or complicated then that’s fine by me.
Best regards, Steve'
and Bob has included his thoughts here
'Steve, Somehow I think your proposal has got linked into the fell running forum and I was unable to find it.
The club obviously needs an overall development plan, that I am prepared to pull together, once we have requirements from each major section of the club. So if you can coordinate the response from the road runners that would be great.
A comparison was made with Wilmslow at our latest committee meeting. They have a smaller membership than us, but tend to outperform us because they all focus on entering an agreed set of races, with virtually no deviation. They also tend to get together more socially. They are all seniors.
I think we should become more race focussed without losing social runners. However, I also think that training for trainings sake does virtually nothing for the club. Ok it gets people fit,but we are an athletics club not a leisure centre.
One or two things you might like to consider.
B group becomes A group, coasters becomes the B group,; the group P&I take on Wed and Fridays becomes the C group ( they are not beginners anymore some having been with us more than two years!), and Neil Gunns Run England initiative becomes the beginners group.
Additionally, there are some new proposals for the run England programme that we need to discuss and perhaps incorporate.'
(end of Bob's bit)
For what it's worth, I think the following things apply to the road and fell sections..
we have plenty of senior members....
mostly vets in each sections,
and generally don't struggle to get folk out on training nights,
but we are very poor at pinning a number on and having a go. (although perhaps just a little bit less so on the fells recently).
For instance I'll be at the Moorlands race at Biddulph tonight, I'd be suprised to see more than 3 or 4 other Harriers there but I bet there'll be 20 minimum from each of Wilmslow, Congleton, Moorlands and so on, (and probably more then 10 Mow Coppers, and they only have 30 odd members in the club !) and this has been / will be the case at most of the local races this summer.
None of this is really a criticism, if that's what everyone wants, then it's up to you I suppose, but I think it's just a bit of a shame we have a decent sized bunch of good athletes, and such a strong training base, but so few prepared to race.
But please, let your thoughts be known.
cheers julian